Imagine being a 22 year old male, encouraged to attend a party that will have alcohol, women, dancing and general partying. You have no curfew and if you stay up all night and party, there are no consequences. On top of that, the one that has set this up and encouraging you to go, is the entity that pays you a check to be a performer, and you have to perform again the next day. Now you might think that we are talking about a rock star, and you would be wrong. What we are talking about is the PBR (Professional Bull Riders).
The PBR has about 32 events per year throughout the country and the finals, in Las Vegas. At each event they have "after parties" which are parties, usually at bars, that are after the event that night. The bull riders are encouraged to attend the after parties and get to know the fans. This, on the surface, seems harmless and a great way for the fan to get to know the rider, and in some cases, it is. However, the set up is froth with problems. The PBR gives the fans opportunities to get signatures and autographs of the riders. Most of the riders come out after the event and come around the arena and sign and take pictures, if they do not come out, they are fined $500. There are "meet and greet" times at select events. A meet and greet is a time that most of the riders are together and the fans can get pictures and autographs. The fan has more access to the bull riders than many other sports. However, the PBR then adds the after parties.
There are riders that attend the after parties, for a short time, have a few beers and meet a few fans, then leave. There are those that don't drink and just have a fun time and leave. However, there are those that come to the after parties, get drunk, leave with women, and stay out or up all night. Now you might say, these are grown men, what is the problem? The problem is that these grown men participate in one of the most dangerous sports in the world and they have to get on a 2,000 pound bull the next day. In bull riding, you have to be at your best, mentally and physically, when it is time to climb on the back of the bull and "perform". Are you at your best when you have been up all night, you are still drunk, or at the very least hung over? You might say, well they are going to do this anyway. In some cases that is true. However, should the PBR be encouraging this by having the after parties during the event? Why not the night the event is over? Why would you encourage, by putting the temptations in front of these men, the bad behavior? Exploitation?
I personally know of a rider coming to an event, hung over from the previous night's partying, and get bucked off his bull and getting hurt. I have seen riders come to the fan signings that were still hung over and in one case, the rider was still drunk and left before the signings finished. I have heard of stories of the riders leaving the after parties with a woman, or in some cases women. I was told of one rider that was in a bar brawl and ended up in jail that night, and still had to ride the next night. One rider even bragged on a TV show that he rides better hung over. What does the PBR think about all this? Well, from what I have seen, it's a joke and it's accepted. I have been to drafts (where the riders pick their bulls) and the announcers are laughing about the fact that guys stayed up all night and had a "good time". There have been riders that were either late to the draft or they "slept in" because of the partying the night before.
The riders are not employees of the PBR and many will argue that the consequences that the riders may suffer will be their own doing. Such as falling off a bull, getting hurt, dealing with the effects of a hang over. This is all true, but the PBR, if it is serious about putting out the best product for the fans, should not encourage this behavior by having after parties that fuel the flames. I was told by a rider, some time ago, that there are guys that could have or should have been a World Champion, but due to the fact that alcohol and partying is more important, they are not. Is the PBR more interested in presenting the fans with riders, no matter how they act, or are they more interested in those riders performing at their best and putting the best product in the arena and the riders' safety? There are problems in the major sports with the athletes and them "misbehaving". So much so, that now many of the sports have had to develop a personal code of conduct policies. An athlete that does something wrong in his personal life is now being held accountable and will be fined and/or suspended.
I did not write this to condemn any rider or even the PBR. Also, by writing this I do not mean to insinuate that all riders, and fans, that attend the after parties are bad or act badly. I know that most fans are there to just have a good time and get to see and talk to the riders. I know that many of the riders are there to have a good time and promote themselves and the PBR and just get to know the fans. However, you just don't put the riders in a situation that bad things can and do happen. In my personal opinion, I do not want to see the PBR go the way of the other sports and have the personal problems of their athletes made into national news. With that said, I also don't think the PBR should be encouraging this behavior or turning a blind eye to it, just to promote themselves. I think we all could agree, as fans of the sport, you want and deserve the best product out in the arena and to avoid a rider being injured because they are not at their best.
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I think this is a good topic to bring up. I am a public relations student, who would like to work for the PBR and often weigh the pros and cons of the event after party.
ReplyDeleteI personally have seen the after party go well with all the riders acting responsibly and have seen it go bad with riders getting drunk and acting less than professional or respectful wondering how they will compete at their best the next day.
I think there needs to be some changes to the after party if it is to continue. I think it should be taken out of the bar location simply to get rid of those negative temptations. I agree that they should be more careful with the drinking because of the dangers of the sport so lets have an after party that eliminates that temptation.
I agree with your comment about that there is really no need for it with the autograph sessions but the parties let you get a little more personal with the riders. You can go to an autograph session and say hi I think you are a great rider and that is where it ends most of the time. At the after party you can talk to the rider and get to know him as a person which is amazing. I remember one year I was at the after party just observing the riders and left early. The next year I had met Shane Proctor at an autograph session Saturday morning and he came up and said hi to me at the after party, I ended up spending the whole night talking to him and Jessi. I had an amazing time and I will never forget that night.
So I think the more laid back natural setting for fans and riders to socialize is important but again I do believe the bar is not necessarily the best place to do it.
I appreciate you posting about this topic because I do think a lot of people don't take into consideration the things you mentioned which are all important.
This is a really tough one for me Tim! I'm really embarassed to admit it now, but when *I* was 22, the Dallas Cowboys were holding training camp in Austin where I lived and I would party with them. I also partied with the UT Longhorns. And a lot of times that partying led to a lot of trouble/drama for me--let's just say I even ended up in a scientific study on athletes and date-rape. I tend to cringe and blush when I think about my behavior (& theirs) now...it's actually kind of painful to remember. So my opinion comes from very personal experiences....
ReplyDeleteI know these young men are legally considered grown-ups, but I know how dumb & easily led astray I was when I was their age--which later caused many, many regrets. So should the PBR sanction parties where some riders' behavior will lead to a lot of regret and grief (for the rider & the girls they party with) later on? I'm not sure...
I think PBR sponsoring the after-parties *could* be a good thing...it could keep the guys in one place and alleviate some of the bar-fighting situations maybe. It could also be a good thing for PBR to sanction the parties too if some PBR people (or more mature riders) would pull some of the guys aside when they're getting stupid. I think PBR could encourage an atmosphere with the parties that is a "safe" outlet for the riders and fans to hang out and have a little fun without letting things get out of hand. But that may seem a little too "big-brother, invasion-of-privacy" to some people.
And some guys are just going to do what they're going to do. Partying seems to be a rite of passage for a majority of young men and women these days. But should PBR glamorize that? I can also see the side of the coin where they shouldn't. What if a PBR rider got drunk at a PBR party and then drove drunk and injured themselves or others. I would think that could involve legal issues that could lead to PBR being sued. And then there's all sorts of moral issues involved....I won't even touch that because that's something each rider and each young lady has to figure out for themselves. I can only hope they don't forget the morals they grew up with (like I conveniently forgot when I was their age).
I know when I go to Tulsa and San Antonio I hope to find some of the after-parties... My reasons for going to the parties now are to hang out with old friends and to connect with other fans more than trying to meet bullriders. Of course, I'm way past being a 22 year old girl trying to "hook up" too. I found my morals a long time ago too, before it was too late. :-) But as a working single mom also in grad school, I rarely get to let loose and dance and have drinks with friends. I'll be staying with old friends in both Tulsa and San Antonio and I DO plan to cut loose and have some fun at an after party. But my fun will be in moderation...maybe that's what someone needs to teach these guys...Most of them already have their values and morals established--whether they choose to follow them or ignore them... Maybe someone should mentor them on moderation... I just don't know...
I think it's a great topic, and sometimes is the big pink elephant in the room... At the end of the day they are going to do what they are going to do. If there is no after party they will create their own, somehow somewhere. This goes on in every sport in every nation. Having spent the last 20 years working very closely with Olympic athelets, some riding multi-million dollar horses either still drunk or very hungover. Every Olympics is a "dry" competition... To the outside world! The second you start telling the party people they cannot do something, the more they are going to do it... I am sure most of the cowboys go to the parties, maybe have a couple of beers and call it a nite. These are all grown men responsible for their own actions. We are all powerless when it comes to other people and their actions. Thanks again for a great topic, so well written.
ReplyDeleteJaclyn - I agree that having some sort of scheduled time, in a relaxed atmosphere, to be able to meet the riders would be great. I also agree with the idea of no alcohol. We have spent time at the hotels, in a relaxed atmosphere, just talking to the riders, sometimes the subject is not even about bull riding. Having a chance to get to know some of the great PBR fans has been even more rewarding than even meeting the riders.
ReplyDeleteCarley - There are many stories of some stupid things we may have done, when we were young. Our pastor has a great testimony about bad decisions he made in his late teens and early 20s. Many of them he regrets and still suffers some consequences, to this day. That is why it is important for the PBR not to promote and encourage this behavior, but to take this seriously. The PBR is a great organization, however they not only condone some of this behavior, but they have a hand in creating the circumstances that could lead to disaster. That is what needs to be changed.
Nicholas - I agree that this problem is not unique to the PBR and bull riders, but this is problem with stardom and athletes and is a problem that is worldwide. I also agree that people that make bad decsions, will find a way to make those decisions, with or without someone's help. However, should the PBR have a hand in giving the riders the avenue for this bad behavior? What happens, as was pointed out in a comment above, a drunk driving incident that occured from a rider or person that was at the PBR "party"? What happens when a woman accuses a rider of rape? A rider she met at the PBR "party"? What happens if a rider gets killed in the arena, and the rider was seen walking away from the PBR "party" the night before, totally wasted? These things can happen and if they do, it could spell the end of the PBR.
I have been to 2 after parties, these are valid and somewhat disturbing things brought up. I know some of these riders live this lifestyle and if there wasn't a PBR party they would be going elsewhere and they do. I certainly agree that the affect the next day takes away from performance and the fans expectations. Perhaps a breath test before riding would be something Tandy could implement, he should be able to stop them when they are not up to riding
ReplyDeleteI personally have not enjoyed the after parties, there seems to be a conflict in what goes on as far as music, etc. compared to the fan that actually attends the event. The music is not what the average fan would enjoy, the crowds are not worth the hassle when they are in a club. PBR really needs to think this out. So how do we get the message to them?
TxPBRgal - I think that if Tandy suspects that a rider is "under the influence", any influence, he owes it to the rider and to his medical practice to intervene. From what I have been told (have not been able to verify) the PBR use to have alcohol available to the riders, in the locker room, during the event. From what I understand, because of problems, the PBR now provides alcohol after the event, in the locker room, instead of before or during. If this is true, the PBR is again putting the fuel on the flame, when it comes to providing something to a rider, that some, have a tough time dealing with and controlling. This just does not make sense.
ReplyDeleteIf the PBR is giving the riders alcohol, and setting up the after parties, I am not sure if complaining to the PBR is what will help make changes happen, unless there is philosophical change. The fact that someone wants to consume alcohol is not the debate or discussion. Consume all you want, just not during the event days. Getting drunk and riding a bull ruins what the fans are coming to see and more importantly, it is dangerous for the riders and the bull fighters.
I definitely enjoyed reading the post - as I have with all of the posts thus far.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a great topic to bring up - and maybe I can provide a different perspective. I'm 23 years old - and at each event I have attended since turning 21 have attended the after parties - which is typically 3-4 events a year and stay for the whole weekend. I grew up with great values - and come from a wonderful household - but as do most people - I absolutely enjoy going out and having a great time. It's always been a part of who I am - and love to socialize and meet people. I think most of the after parties I have attended have been some great nights out - and always provided me with some great stories and new friends.
I think taking the "after party" out of the bar would change the atmosphere they're trying to provide - and appeal to a different audience. The bar itself provides a much more casual approach - even if they had a "casual" type meet and greet in a different location - I'm not sure it would provide the same atmosphere. Personally, I have enjoyed the time I've gotten to spend with different riders, sponsers, and other various members of staff, etc. I think it provides a real chance to get to know some of them in a way you wouldn't otherwise - even if they offered the same event - not at a bar location.
Personally - I think part of it is appealing to a different audience. That maybe they shouldn't "encourage" it - but they have a very widely spread fan base. I have attended meet and greets in the past - however I find the after parties more enjoyable - for my age bracket and relationship with some of those involved with the PBR. Also - part of it may be the attendence - having an "after party" with no alcohol, or bar involved - that it may greatly drop. It could appeal to a different group of those riders - but then isn't that what all of the other events that take place over the course of an event weekend are for? This provides an outlet for those who are going to go out , and party into the nights somewhere to do that - while allowing the fans the ability to experience that.
Most of those riders, and others who do attend these bar-setting after parties - would be attending a bar regardless of the PBR hosting it. If they hosted elsewhere - those same riders would more than likely skip that to attend a bar in the area. I would never discrouage the after parties - I have made some great friends through them and been given some amazing opportunities to get to know some riders, and others involved through these parties. Just because the people attending may be looking for a party, and having a good time, possibly making some bad decisions doesn't always mean it leads to regrets or the such down the road.
ReplyDeleteI may have made some poor choices in my life thus far - but never would I consider anything I've done a regret. All of it has brought me to where I am today - so I would never change any of it. The most I could hope for them would be to feel the same way. Regarding some conversations I have had with various riders on the same topic - I know some have the same approach to it all.
So while maybe they are glamourizing it too much - I don’t think that always comes from the PBR. But - when you pull a large group of people, riders, and anyone involved together - who come from all backgrounds and locations - you are going to have a varied crowd attending. So maybe it should be seen less as encouraging bad behavior - and more providing an outlet for a different type of person attending the event.
Many of these riders will take part in bad behavior whether the PBR is hosting these events or not - they do have days off during the week, and summer - and live a different type of lifestyle than most. I know personally - it has given me a wonderful opportunity to make some close friends. Personally - I think everyone needs to accept the danger they are bringing into their own life. Maybe they aren't the smartest decisions - but these men have made it this far living their lives - and I'm sure would never blame someone else for a decision they made which pushed them a little bit more into harms way. They know their bodies, their minds, and the way they react - sober, drunk, or hungover.
lisab9686 - You've made some interesting points, and I agree that the after parties are a good way to meet the riders. However, that is not the point of what I wrote.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine the NFL throwing a party with drinking and women, knowing that some of their players will be hung over, or still drunk during the game, the next day? Can you imagine what the press would do to a player that plays badly, or gets hurt, knowing that that player was up all night "having fun"? The press would crucify the player for his actions and the team for having the "party" the night before a game.
You say, well that is team sports. Ok, let's take cycling. What would happen if the Cycling Federation had a "party" the night before the first leg of the Tour de France, and the cyclist gets into an accident or performs poorly? Again, the press would be all over the rider and the Federation.
Does the PBR care about the safety of the rider, or are they more interested in trying to get riders and fans together, to promote the PBR? Yes, the rider will still find ways to get drunk if he wants to. However, the PBR should not be a helping hand in the rider getting to that point. Does the PBR want to clean this up or is this just one of those "good ole boy" subjects that you sweep under the rug, because they might lose fans or sponsors?
1) Whether or not the PBR has a sponsored "after party" there will be one, so they might as well use it to promote the sport.
ReplyDelete2) If the riders show up hung over and don't ride well, they lose money, eventually sponsors, and their career. Like most things in life, it is a question of responsibility and accountability on each of the riders parts, and not the PBR's responsibility to babysit them.
3) This is bullriding. Bullriders have always been and will always be hell raisers (maybe not all of them, but a good number) and I would venture to guess that they are all beer drinkers (even if only in moderation). You have to be a little crazy to do what they do, so guys getting out of hand, from time to time, is expected.
Conrad -
ReplyDeleteRegarding your #1: So let me get this straight, because some men have a problem controlling their partying ways, the PBR might as well use it to their advantage? That's called EXPLOITATION.
Your #2 - Nobody is asking the PBR to babysit, just not encourage/tempt bad behavior. If this is such a great idea, why aren't all the other sports throwing "parties" before game day, knowing some of the guys are not going to perform up to par?
Your #3 - Be as crazy as you want, drink as much as you want, raise as much hell as you want, the other 5-6 days during the week. Just not during an event and have the PBR putting the bottle in your hand. By the way, why is bad behavior no longer excepted in the major sports? I guess it's ok to be a hell raiser if you are a bull rider, but not a football, basketball, baseball player. I do know of riders who will not go to after parties because of the problems that occur. These are bull riders, the guys that you seem to think can't be a bull rider unless that are crazy enough to "have" to party.
Conrad, your #3 point is totaly inaccurate. I personaly know 2 riders, one in the top 45 and one in the top 10 that have NEVER, and I mean never had a drop of alcohol in their entire life. Not every bull rider is going to fit into your little dreamed up cookie cutter profile. You say guys getting out of hand should be expected. Man, I have no idea in what type of family situation you grew up in, but the "boys will be boys" attitude sure didn't fly at my house. I guess morals & good upbringing is something that you don't seem to think bull riders need.
ReplyDeleteWell - thinking more of it - I guess the one sport I would compare the PBR too would be more of a golf. Technically cycling is still a team sport - in that they ride as a team and are helping eachother - or one key member of that team in succeeding.
ReplyDeleteGolf has more of a similar aspect - with the sponsers and that they are only paid when they succeed and compete entirely as individuals.
I think the PBR has to look at it in an entirely different way than any sport who is signing players - and those players have contracts with their team. That maybe although the PBR has the best payouts - they also need to appeal to these riders - there are other organizations and tours - who could easily step in their place. So while maybe it's considered promiting bad behavior - it's also advertising of their organization. A golf player could go out after or before any match they have - ultimately who will they hurt should they be unsuccessful? Themselves.
Look at Tiger. But never was the PGA put at fault - it was HIS behavior. While the PGA or his caddy may have had fingers pointed at them for sweeping it under the rug - they were never put at fault for doing what Tiger's behavior caused for turmoil in his own life.
Another way to look at it too (and take this with in mind that I am a huge PBR fan - and been following for upwards of 5 years now). A main side effect of drinking is the dehydration of it - I would have to think this would affect a Football Player or endurance sport type athlete - in a different way than a Bull Rider. Yes - they all need to be at the top of their game to compete - and need their head about them - but ultimately I find a difference in the type of competing that they do and the things that would place a HUGE negative impact on them.